Andre update: Changing it up

Now, while I think that I will eventually need to address the B12 issue, the fact remains that Dre is gaining weight. That's right. Big Guy is up to 54lbs. That's from an all-time low of 41 after surgery. I think he's looking pretty good.

Seeing ribs on my bullies with their short coats, super muscle tone, and athletic builds is one thing; seeing them on a longer short-coat like Dre is another. We could also see his hip bones at one point. He wasn't even fun to snuggle with. Now you can see some tuck, but it's not overly tight. I'm pretty happy with his body condition right now.

That said, I wanted to document what we've done this week that's different.

On Wednesday, he threw up twice. I decided that we might need stronger probiotics than the yogurt and whatever is in the Missing Link. So we're adding kefir to his diet. Kefir is like a cousin to yogurt, but it's much more potent in terms of its probiotic qualities. If this continues to seem useful, I'll take up an offer from a friend to get some of her kefir grains to culture my own. We usually make our own yogurt, but this is a much simpler process.

We have also been substituting a few ounces of turkey with a packet of ground lamb that I picked up last week at the abattoir. So far so good. The turkey Bravo that he's been eating has gone up in price (as of today) to about $2.75/lb. when it costs more to feed one of the dogs than one of the humans, it's time to reevaluate. If it's what we need to do, we will. But I think it's time to start trying out some other things. I'd like to try slowly adding some heart, both beef and chicken, maybe gizzards, and chicken frames, particularly the chicken blend I buy at the farmers market, as it looks to be very low fat. 

His problems seemed to arise when given salmon oil or chicken legs-- fatty cuts of chicken. He did great on chicken breast only. So while hearts can be very rich for some dogs, they are also lean, packed with vitamins, and frankly... cheap. I'd love to reach a point where I can substitute maybe half his turkey with other things, both for the variety and the cost savings.

Andre update: test results

So Big Dre got his test results back today. 

He does not have EPI and his folate levels are good. His cobalamin (B12) is "low normal." ETa: B12 deficiencies seem to manifest in the form of GI trouble or it is a symptom of GI trouble, I'm not entirely clear. But this seems unsurprising all the way around. 

So the good news is that he does not have a disease that would have required us to incubate porcine pancreas on every bite of his food. 

The bad news is that we still aren't sure exactly what IS wrong with him...

Except that he is missing the part of his small intestines that normally absorbs B12. The lab where his tests were run at Texas A&M (yay Aggies? Oh. That felt weird...) recommends B12 supplementation for low normal results. I saw this after speaking to the vet. We left it at continuing to watch and see. He's not losing weight so that's good. I started him on the vegetarian Missing Link to get his omegas and probiotics. We'll see if he tolerates that better than the salmon oil. 

But I will be speaking to the vet more about B12 supps. The thing is, although it is water soluble and so overdose is pretty impossible, oral supplements don't work all that well. I could give them to him and see if he's one of the lucky ones that they do work for, but if that part of his intestine is gone, then what's the point? Injections work better, I'm told. The body has a limited store of B12 and if he's not absorbing it, he's using what he has and not replenishing it and, well, it's kind of important. 

Anyone out there with experience on this sort of thing, your input is welcome. Otherwise, I'll update when I know more and as we continue with the Missing Link. 

The Nitty Gritty: Supplements

Don't get scared. I don't use all of those all the time.

Ideally, if you can offer lots and lots of variety, you probably won't have to worry too much about supplementation. But I'm always a little worried that I'm not giving them everything, and sometimes they need a little boost here and there for various reasons. Here is Mary Strauss's DogAware page on supplements for dogs.

**One quick note-- when buying supplements designed for humans, read the ingredients carefully. Many tablets or caplets will contain things like xylitol and other artificial sweeteners that may be toxic for your dog. Always be aware of what you're giving them, especially when they are not specifically designed for dogs.**

Fish Oil
Minimally, when feeding a raw diet, you'll want to make sure that they're getting the right Omega 3s and 6s. These fatty acids support skin and coat, eye health and brain development in young puppies, immune system health, decreased inflammation, and lots of other things. Fish body oils have these omegas in the right ratios and are a very bioavailable way for dogs to receive these nutrients. We give capsules of human grade Alaskan salmon oil a few times a week in addition to one meal a week where I take the lowest sodium cans of salmon and mackerel and split a single can of each between the 3 girls. I make up the rest of the meal with cottage cheese, eggs, and sometimes yogurt, keffir, or vegetables.

If you're wanting to feed raw fish, there are some that can be fed, but salmon and trout carry the potential for a fatal disease, so we just stick with cooked.

Vitamin E-- this is also important to supplement with when feeding fish oils. The body needs vitamin E to absorb these oils, and so the body's store of E can be depleted. We do roughly 1-2iu of E per pound, and I add that by giving 200iu every 2-3 days (my dogs range in weight from 45lbs-60lbs).

If fish oils aren't a possibility, there are plants that contain these same fatty acids. They are not as bioavailable or as conveniently packaged together as they are in fish oils. The correct ratio depends on who you talk to, and ranges from 5:1 to 20:1 (omega3:omega6). This is not something I've had to really confront, but now will need to because of Andre. It's clear that he is not tolerating the salmon oil, and so I will be trying flax, perhaps with some other oils or meals. Which brings me to my next supplements...

Multipurpose Supplements
When I began feeding raw, I rotated between 2 different blends: Missing Link (we will try the vegetarian blend with Dre) and Solid Gold Seameal.

Missing Link is mostly good for getting those omega 3/6/9s and some other vitamins and minerals, and it uses a more "whole food" approach-- in other words, giving them what they need without adding lots of synthetic vitamins.

The Seameal is great for probiotic help and for trace minerals-- lots of little things they might not be getting elsewhere.

I would rotate between these 2 brands. And if I wasn't able to add a lot of variety immediately, I'd probably also add in a multivitamin. This may become necessary for Andre, as well, so I'll touch on that if we have to make some decisions that direction.

Once I got more variety going, and was adding in more fish for the omegas, I switched to adding...

Kelp
Kelp is great for so many things. It has all those great trace minerals. We have found that it helps with allergies and digestion. It's also good for glandular health. That said, you should be careful with dosing. Because kelp can be high in iodine (and that iodine level is certainly not uniform for all brands of kelp), adding it to a commercial diet can be problematic in regards to the thyroid. Dr. Jean Dodds has written a great book about canine hypothyroidism and is worth a read on this topic. Since we aren't feeding a primarily commercial diet, we add it to the food, approximately 1/2tsp a day. I buy it in bulk at the co-op. Because it is such a fine powder, it lasts a long time, and even at $15/lb, it's not very expensive on a daily basis.

We have also been taking some of the Pet Kelp line of blends for a spin. River has been taking the Joint and Bone blend, and Andre has been getting the Wellness with blueberries. I can't say for sure whether they are helping or not, but the price point is good and so it's been worth a try. I'll report after we use them for a while longer.


**Those are the ones that I personally see as truly essential. They are the ones that I provide to really make up for what the diet is missing. But there are several things that I add on a case-by-case basis or as "bonus."**


Coconut Oil
We love coconut oil. It's such a great addition to their diet. It has helped with allergies tremendously and has improved their skin and coat qualities immeasurably. As I discussed before, Luna used to have a terrible flea allergy, and really is allergic to everything. She now has only very mild reactions to bites and her allergic reactions clear up very quickly, and usually without the use of antibiotics, etc.

And the better their coat and skin quality, the less frequently we treat for fleas. Fleas don't really like healthy skin; broken skin is easier to infiltrate, so the reduction in fleas was a nice surprising bonus for us.

It's good for digestion, immunity, skin; it can be used topically. It's a medium chain fat and so it's processed differently by the body and has no cholesterol. It's just amazing stuff.

We buy it on a subscription from Amazon. It's solid below 76ºF, a bit like the consistency of candle wax. I just start a dog off with a very small amount, maybe 1/4tsp, and slowly increase that until they are getting a small spoon of it once a day. We increase and decrease this as necessary.

Probiotics/Digestive Enzymes
We stuff Kongs with yogurt (when I have time, I prefer to make my own) and we use keffir when I need to get a dog's gut back to good (after a round of antibiotics, etc.). I have also used a variety of doggie probiotics, and I can't really endorse one over another. They seem to work about the same.

I have found that often the dog needs digestive enzymes, rather than probiotics-- In Clover Fresh Digest is the one that we've found and like. I like the company, and while the product may look pricey, we buy it cheaper on Amazon and you use very little of it per meal. It's also a very fine powder and somewhat sweet, so it tends to be pretty easy to administer. It tends to make a big difference in stool quality and flatulence. Andre gets this at every meal; the rest get it when needed, after antibiotics or when adding in a brand new protein or changing foods or they received an abundance of treats, etc...

Cranberry
My girls who are prone to UTIs get cranberry capsules. Cranberry doesn't so much cure UTIs as make it more difficult for bacteria to take hold in the bladder. Same as for people. I just use CranActin capsules, just one day. I also occasionally give d-mannose specifically.

Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM
River and Robin are the two oldest, and they get joint supplements. River gets the Pet Kelp, as well as Dasuquin with MSM; Robin gets Dasuquin, though she'd probably be fine with something a little less robust. When River's having a hard time, we increase her fish oil and MSM, as these two help with joint inflammation, as well. Nutramax, who makes Dasuquin, is also the same company that has made Cosequin for many years. Their process is supposedly better than others. The Dasuquin is much like the Cosequin, but it contains avocado soybean unsaponifiables (ASUs), which are extracts that are supposed to help with the inflammation. We've felt like it's helped better than almost any brand we've tried. But there are many other brands-- Glycoflex is another good one, and we've like the Green Dog Naturals Healthy Motion.

L-Theanine
This is one that I take, and that my girls with anxiety take. It's an amino acid that just helps to level things out. It's marketed for dogs under the name Anxitane. I buy Enzymatic Therapies for people and we all share. This is one, though, that you should talk to your vet about if you want to add it.

Bonemeal
And when we have to go a while (like more than several days) without bone-in meals, I add bonemeal to the diet to make sure they are getting all their calcium. Here's some more information on how much bonemeal to add...


So that's a long post-- and I have used other supplements at various times for various things, from incontinence to anal gland issues. I'll touch on those as I have time. But these are what we regularly feed. Again, I'd say the fish oil and kelp are the only things that we add across the board and that I feel are quite necessary; I have long considered the addition of spirulina and alfalfa and will make note of that if I do make that change. But the others serve a great purpose for us and we tailor these to each dog. One of the great things about a home-prepped diet is the ability to tailor it as we see fit. And again, just like supplements for people, you should let your vet know about these things when they are prescribing medications or diagnosing problems.

Dre's July update

Poor Dre Dog.

After trying and failing to add salmon oil, TWICE, I went back to just turkey. I've been a little lax about treats, but other than that, his diet's been pretty straightforward. He threw up bile right before the first time we tried salmon, threw up food on day 3 of that, hacked and threw up bile with the second round, and threw up yard waste yesterday. After yesterday's episode, he really didn't feel well. He moped around the house and laid on my feet.

He started to feel better when his friend
came to see what was going on.

Anyway, we decided it was time to rule out bigger problems. We are concerned that he might have a pancreatic problem. Our vet still feels like all signs point to dietary intolerance, but we want to make sure it's not something more fundamental. I want to make sure we don't keep assuming the hoofprints belong to a horse when in fact the zebras made a break from the zoo, ya know?

I didn't allow him any treats since I knew he'd be getting a blood draw and wanted to be sure he'd been fasted long enough. God bless, he was not happy. I usually use vet visits as training opportunities. So when we showed up there and he got NO TREATS-- not form me, not from the front desk, not from the techs, not from the doc, AND HE COULD SEE THEM RIGHT THERE-- he wasn't thrilled. He barked.  A lot.

But he was nice and still and quiet for his draw, which is really what counts. His sample will be sent to Texas A&M's lab for EPI testing. The good news is that he still seems to be handling raw well. I hope he continues to do so.

I'll report back when we have results...

The Nitty Gritty: Where to shop

I wish I could give the dogs all the variety in the world, all organic, all humanely-raised, all fresh, all hormone free... I wish I could feed myself only those things.

When I began this project, I felt a bit like I was only going to do it if I could do it perfectly.

But that's unrealistic. In my opinion, feeding them fresh human grade foods would be better than feeding them processed dry dog foods. If my only choices for my breakfast were "high quality" powdered eggs, or fresh non-organic eggs, well, I'd choose the fresh.

That said, I am always looking for more variety, better sources, higher quality, etc. But I'm not going to feed the dogs something I'm not happy with while I wait for the absolute perfect source to come along, because it may never happen. The fresher it is then the more I know about its origins, and that is always better, in my opinion.

And if you can't find a wide variety of organ meats, as many people can't, I would still do it. We didn't have that wide variety in the beginning. We fed some kibble meals, and we added more vegetables and supplements (like a multivitamin), more eggs. We didn't forego feeding the fresh foods; we made concessions where necessary and continued to look for more sources.

That said, these are the some places to start your shopping spree:

There's that reduced for quick sale
sticker. If it's on sale, and it's a good
price, I'll take it.

The Grocery Store
Yep. The grocery store. My husband now knows whenever we go grocery shopping, we have to make a pass by the meat case, even if we don't need anything, to keep an eye out for the yellow, "reduced for quick sale" sticker. We get pork and beef cuts very cheaply this way, and chicken parts-- bone-in thighs and drumsticks, hearts and gizzards, and livers are the most common items on sale. Sometimes we come across a nice deal on organic chicken or turkey. I'm lucky to have the freezer space to buy anything I see and throw it in the freezer to process later.

When we began making raw, we were buying our chicken leg quarters from the grocery. WalMart here sells bags of leg quarters for $0.59/lb. They aren't the highest quality, as you can imagine, and after removing the large sections of loose skin and removable fat, it's more like $0.75-0.80/lb.

To save processing time, I started buying pre-separated thighs and drumsticks. These had less fat and skin, so the processing time was less, and they were of a higher quality. I could usually get these for around $1/lb, sometimes on sale for $0.88/lb.

I have been told that many people are able to buy cases of certain cuts through the grocery butcher. I've never tried this, as I have a different source for that kind of thing, but it's always worth asking. Most come in 40lb cases, and it's often things that aren't as popular: hearts alone, beef hearts, gizzards, necks, backs, etc. It's always worth asking. Always. 

**One thing to pay attention to when buying human-grade meats is to be aware of "enhancements" and sodium. The less enhancement the better, and I was always told to keep the sodium as close to less than 100mg/4oz as possible. I'll try to find a source on that number...**

Specialty Grocers
Organ meats are hard to come by in most "regular" grocery stores. But we are lucky to have large Asian and Hispanic populations here, and if you're lucky, too, these are great places to find some of these things. So it's worth checking your local carniceria or Asian market.

Cryovacc'd cuts form abattoir, pork
from the grocery store, grinds from
Texas Tripe. It's a mixed bag.

Abattoirs/Butchers
A butcher is a pretty obvious option... But many "butchers" are really just meat stores. And they may be able to order things by the case for you, but the places that actually slaughter and process are the ones to look for. Ask around-- where do the local hunters take their deer for processing? Where do local livestock (especially the small-scale) farmers have their meat processed?

Our local abattoir keeps a large freezer just for cryovacc'd organ and other meats for people like me :) -- kidneys, sweetbreads, testicles, liver, heart, tongue, beef tips. But I can also call them on the days that they slaughter and ask them to hold specific organs for me. I can call and they will bag up lungs, kidney, liver and heart all still connected, and sell it to me for $10. This requires some work on my part, but saves me some money and saves them the trouble of individually trimming and packing. It's a win-win.

Also, ask them what they do with any trim. Tell them what you're doing, what kinds of things you feed, let them know how much elbow grease you're willing to put in (if any), and see what they can do for you. It's always worth asking.

Local Farmers/Farmers Markets
This can definitely be a win-win situation and a phenomenal way to get higher quality sources at a reasonable price.

Who locally sells free-range chicken? Grass-fed beef? Pasture-raised pigs? Other livestock and poultry-- goats, pheasant, turkey, rabbit, lamb?

Give those farmers a call or an email. Explain what you do-- that you're feeding your dogs raw and you're looking for new variety, specifically cuts that might otherwise be going to waste. Things like organ meats that are harder or impossible for them to sell, or things like chicken frames (these are what's left after the legs and breast have been removed from the bird; it's a lot of meat and bone, usually includes the back and neck, and you can add it to other boneless meat to get that 80/10/10 ratio-- and since it's something that they're not going to be selling at the market at a huge premium, they might be willing to sell it for cheap). We now have a couple of local farmers who have their leftover chicken parts-- frames, legs, backs, necks, liver, heart, etc-- ground up and packaged for raw feeders. One has offered to have the abattoir bag up all the leftovers of his livestock for me to buy and pick up. These are humanely and naturally raised animals-- much better quality than I could otherwise afford. But again, it's a win-win. It's always worth asking.

This is even more mixed bag. A box of
beef spleen, cases of hearts and gizzards,
ground packs of chicken frames, blends
including organs, blends from the farmers
market. We buy a pretty wide range
these days

Co-Ops and Similar Group Buying
We don't live in a big enough urban area for utilizing a co-op. DogAware has a list of co-ops by state. This is a way for large groups of people to buy at bulk prices and split the product into smaller quantities.

We HAVE, however, been lucky enough to be able to buy from Texas Tripe. There are other companies like this, you just have to look for them. His prices are worth driving to a drop-off location for us. This is a bit like a co-op. This company deals mainly in grass-fed beef and buys in bulk from local poultry processing facilities and from local hunters. I can buy in bulk, myself (40lb cases of hearts or gizzards, 50lb blocks of chicken frames, 20lb blocks of beef trim, etc.), or I can pay a bit more for him to have already ground and packaged these things; or I can pay a little MORE for him to have already ground and portioned the various components into blends that include meat and organ, and sometimes bone. It's a way for me to buy in bulk, like a co-op, or a less expensive way to buy pre-packaged raw and still have the flexibility to build your own meals as you need to. This is how we've been buying much of our raw for a while now, and I'll talk about what we do with these products later. It's slightly more expensive than grinding my own leg quarters, but I've been shorter on time than money lately, and it's still a great deal and cheaper than buying pre-packaged commercially produced raw.

Other Options
I have one friend who buys much of her organ meats from the local butcher's college. Some people I know drive directly to some of the processors that Texas Tripe buys from. All my friends know not to throw out freezer burned meats. Once again: It's always worth asking. 

Ask everyone and anyone who eats and buys meat. Friends. Hunters. Butchers. And if you are limited to the grocery store, it is still totally doable. Don't be discouraged. But if you can put in a little extra effort, you can find wonderful resources-- higher quality, more variety-- just ask around. And tell people what you're doing.  I've found that most people think it's weird, but kind of neat and will offer their leftover meats and trims and leftovers from hunting. Just let people know.

The Nitty Gritty: Content and clarity

Edited for Clarity:
I really wanted to first clarify that I said in the last post on this topic that we don't do a lot of veggies. We've increased the variety of organ meat that we use, and decreased the amount of veggies. However, we've also increased the amount of green tripe that they get. Tripe is just the contents and lining of the stomach of ruminants, like cattle. Lots of mid-digestion grass and all the good digestive assisting qualities that the fermentation process adds. This is not the same as tripe that you find in the grocery store, which has been washed and bleached, and essentially stripped of most of its beneficial qualities. And this also makes it harder to find. But if you find it, you're lucky. It smells like shit, literally, but it's good for them, and they love it.

This is a boneless meal of cut up chicken thighs, perhaps
some liver that I see in there, canned pumpkin, and kelp.

How much?

The rule of thumb-- and this was pretty standard across resources-- was to begin by feeding 2-3% of their ideal body weight per day, for an adult dog, and then adjust as needed. We just watched for weight gain and loss and went from there. We started River off at 2%, but she's older and less active; she now eats more like 1.5%. Luna, on the other hand, has a metabolism I'd ill for. When she is very active, she eats 4% or more. Because she stays very lean, and has a very short coat, it's easy to see when she's losing and gaining. So although River weighs the most, she eats the least. It all depends on the dog.

The RMBs

As I mentioned, we felt comfortable with the 10/10/80 formula. But how to achieve that? Oh, just do ~60% RMBs and you're good, right?

...But what counts as an RMB? And aren't some bonier than others? And are you sure they can eat bones? And what kind of bones?

See? Overwhelming.

Through the Yahoo raw feeders' group, I found out about this website. The USDA has a database that you can use to determine the percentage of bone in the RMBs that you feed. To find that information, you'll find your cut, and then click on the "full report" link. You'll see a percentage listed as "refuse" and a description of what that "refuse" is (ie, bone).

It seems that most people feed chicken RMBs, at least to start with. Some also feed rib bones, necks bones-- other non-weight bearing bones of larger animals. Chicken bones are all pretty soft. But the weight bearing bones of large livestock are too hard and dense for most dogs to be edible. They can still be used as recreational bones, but they certainly weren't going to go through my consumer model grinder. Chicken and rabbit will go through a mid-range home grinder well, depending on the model, and they are easy for the dogs to crunch and to digest.

Chicken leg quarters are a favorite starter, and they are listed as 27% bone on the USDA site. This isn't a foolproof number, so don't get bogged down by that. But by making them approximately half of the dogs' meals, we're giving them a roughly 13% bone content. This is technically a bit high, but I just watched their stool for signs of white, too-dry stool or mild constipation. The leg quarters we were using were pretty meaty, so they may have been less bony than the USDA would suggest.

So depending on what RMB you choose, you can visit the USDA site, find it's % and do a little algebra to find out how much you need per day.

The heart and tongue are muscles; the kidney and
sweetbreads are secreting organs. Kidneys have a good
deal of fat around and inside them. The fat on the outside
is what's known as suet. 

Muscle or Organ??

Which one is it?? The heart is an organ right? Not when you're talking about raw feeding. It's a muscle-- a rich muscle, and one that you'll want to ease most dogs into (though mine can eat whole meals of heart now), but it's a muscle. Gizzards-- muscle. Tongue-- muscle. Lung-- eh. Kinda both? It's best if you can find a secreting organ to make up the organ portion of the meals. Don't get me wrong; all the things listed above are great for variety, and certainly better than nothing in my opinion. But ideally, you want things like kidney, sweetbreads (thymus), spleen, liver, etc. Secreting organs.

The Rest

For the boneless portion, we fed as wide a variety as possible. At first, this was what we could get at the store, and on sale. Pork (I freeze pork for 2-3 weeks to be on the safe side), loins, sirloins, center cuts, picnic roasts, all mostly on sale; whole cuts of beef from the grocery store (roasts, steaks, etc.) and ground beef from our local abattoir where I had a better idea of the quality and age of the meat; and other cuts of chicken like boneless thighs, breasts, tenders, gizzards and hearts; turkey breasts. Eventually we added beef and pork hearts and tongues and trim from butchers.

For the organ portion, we began with liver (beef and chicken) and some eggs. We were eventually able to start adding kidneys, sweetbreads, along with the liver, spleen, pancreas, etc.

Because liver deals with nutrients that are delicately balanced and that are important not to get in too high quantities (like zinc and copper), my understanding is that liver should be kept at roughly half of the organ allotment (ie, 5%). We have done this by giving it daily with other organs or by alternating days and weeks.

As for the fish, because we were feeding whole body fish, bones included, we did not supplement these days with organ or extra calcium. And because we added cottage cheese, veggies, and eggs to those meals, even though they had bones I didn't really worry about throwing my numbers off.

-------

This has changed over the years because of a change in our supplier, but it's a way to get started with what you can find at the grocery store without it costing a fortune.

The poop factor

Before I forget to point this out... Don't worry. This post isn't illustrated. (though, maybe an illustrated poop guide would be a good idea... ;-) )

Because of Andre's issues, I always make sure he has a bowel movement in the mornings before I leave the house. When he went this morning, it was... well... a lot. And it was, er... moist. And really, really stinky. I mean, it was voluminous. That's the only way I can describe it.

I was shocked. Until I remembered the insane number of store-bought, non-grain-free treats that he ate this weekend. He went to the farmers market with me. He went to Petco with me. He rode in the car. We trained in the yard. And I lazily didn't boil any turkey. So he got bagged treats.

And this reminded me of one of the biggest reasons that I love raw. Aside from all the health benefits we see in our dogs, their poop is spectacular. I mean really.

It is small-- more nutrient dense food, more digestible, more useable means less waste.

It is dry and quite firm. Again, there's just not a lot of waste and there's not a lot of fiber sucking up moisture. If it's too dry or too firm, it's easy to add extra organ meat or add some canned pumpkin or other veggies, or reduce the amount of bone to help things along.

And it doesn't stink. If you don't clean up after a kibble-fed dog right away, especially when it's 95 degrees in the shade, the yard gets pretty unbearable pretty quickly. You might also find yourself stepping in it (ew) days later and tracking it everywhere. Raw fed dogs have very low odor bowel movements, and because they're dry and small, they dry up to hard rock then crumbled up status fairly immediately. There's no tracking poop everywhere if you can't clean it up right away. There have been times that I've gone into the yard to catch up on clean up, and can't find anything to pick up.

It's a glorious world of poop. Every time I've had a kibble-fed dog, I'm reminded of just how good we have it...

The Nitty Gritty: Basic decisions

So I read, and read, and read, and read...

I asked questions on every forum I belonged to...

I read every sticky that related to dog food on every other dog forum I came across...

I visited every grocery and club store, called every chicken-only store (we have a lot of those in Arkansas), called every butcher and abattoir...

I culled all this new information, waded through the various options, and decided on a plan forward.

It's changed quite a bit, but here's what we landed on to begin with...

The Schedule
At the time, I was still afraid of not giving them the right balance. I was also concerned that any place we boarded them for vacation wouldn't be willing to feed raw. So we decided to split the difference, and do half raw, half kibble. They got kibble in the morning and raw in the evening. Many people will tell you it's bad to mix kibble and raw in the same meal because of the different digestion rates, increasing risk for bloat. I don't know if this is true or not, but why risk it?

I started for a week or more giving only boneless chicken thighs with no supplements to try and acclimate their tummies to it. The important thing is to move slowly, adding in new proteins, new supplements, and new organs, a bit at a time so as not to cause tummy upset. Some dogs take to it right away and some take a number of weeks to transition.

We also made the switch cold turkey with the three girls; just, one day, gave them a raw meal. That was that. No one had problems, and in fact, almost all the dogs' stools firmed up immediately. It was like their intestines were saying, "What took you so long!?!" When switching Andre, because he has such a sensitive system, I switched him slowly from kibble to cooked meat, and then slowly from cooked to raw. That's another way of going about it if you have a sensitive soul and don't want to mix kibble and raw.

The vast majority of sources suggested roughly 50-65% of the meal be raw meaty bones, RMBs-- meaning bones with a lot of meat on them-- and the rest boneless meat and organs. So we chose to do 4 meals per week of RMBs and 3 meals of organ and boneless. When we switched to all raw, we chose to feed an RMB meal in the mornings and a boneless/organ meal in the evenings. We now do what they call a "Frankenprey" model, where we have a mix of many things, from many protein sources, in each meal. 

**One important thing that nearly every source stressed is that this is a diet emphasizing balance over time. No need to cram everything in every meal; it's not how we eat, it's not how any animal eats, it's just not necessary. Try to be as balanced as possible over small spans of time (days/weeks-- not months).**

The Mix

The diet we chose is based on a 10/10/80% ratio-- 10%bone/10%organ/80%meat, give or take (again, balance over time). I sometimes give them more bone than that. 

For a long time, they got a ground chicken leg quarter/liver meal in the morning and a boneless/other organ meal in the evening. 

One meal every week to 10 days, they also got a mix of canned salmon or mackerel, cottage cheese and eggs. Eggs are best served soft-boiled, but raw is fine if it's not all the time, in large quantities. 

Especially in the beginning, when I didn't have the variety of organ meats that I do now, I liked for them to get some veggies for fiber and filler and for the nutrients they weren't otherwise getting. I would either mix one green and one root/squash, or alternate weekly. I lightly cooked them, ran them through the food processor and put them in muffin tins and froze for easy use later. 

Now that we do the Frankenprey, I usually use a mix of very bony grind, boneless meat and organs in each meal.

To Grind or Not To Grind
Many people will tell you that NOT grinding is the only way to REALLY do raw right. And some dogs handle whole RMBs very well. River does. I give River a chicken neck-- a little ol' chicken neck for my 60lb lab-- and she delicately crunches and chews, never guarding it from anyone or hiding it under the couches. Allowing them to really chew, rip, and shred their meals has the bonus of mechanically cleaning their teeth and giving them a mental workout, as well.

However, I'm terrified of them choking. Little miss 45lb Luna swallows chicken backs WHOLE. Silently. In one gulp. I'm pretty sure Andre would, too. No idea how she'd handle larger pieces, but I don't entirely trust her judgement. I do know people who have had to pull a stuck piece out of a choking dog.

I am also a germophobe, to a small degree. I could feed them in their crates, but then I have to remove the bedding and spray everything down. I tried giving Robin a bone-in thigh, and she picked it up out of the bowl, set it next to the bowl very suspiciously, ate everything else, then looked at me sideways while she ran out of the room with it to the couch...

Which brings me to the other problem I, personally, have with whole prey feeding. It wasn't easy getting that back from Robin while she dragged chicken juices all over the place. She resource guards on a occasion. Not terribly, but enough that I'm not thrilled with the idea. And Luna resource guards from the other dogs. She already doesn't want them near her crate; I didn't want to add one more high value thing to the mix. Our house at the time was tiny.

So if you've got a chewer, live in a temperate climate where they can eat outside all the time (I didn't have time to police that situation), or are cool with cleaning the crate all the time, or can teach them to eat on a mat, etc., be my guest. I'm too much of a worrier/germophobe/crunched-for-time-with-an-hour-long-commute-in-the-morning to do any of that. So we grind. I'll do a post on all our equipment later...

To Supplement or Not to Supplement
Again, you'll find people who sit on both sides of that fence.

**One other thing that most everyone will point out is that variety is key. Variety, variety, variety. Variety in proteins, in cuts, in organs, in sourcing, in everything. Every cut from every animal offers something different, and so the more variety you can lend, the less (theoretically) you should need to supplement.**

As I began, liver was about the only organ I could reliably get, and cost dictated that chicken made up the bulk of their meals. So I added in the veggies and supplemented, alternating between a couple of different blends. One was a seaweed based blend, offering trace minerals: Solid Gold Seameal. Another was a general flax based blend: Missing Link. Nearly every source will also suggest, even if they are opposed to supplementing for the most part, that you add a source for omegas, usually fish oil. This can be in the form of salmon oil or in whole body fish fed regularly, or flax if they can't tolerate fish oils. We've altered this some, but this was the basic starting point.
____________

So those were our primary decisions. A basic formulary, a basic RMB, a schedule, a consistency, and supplements. Again, remember, these aren't the only way to go. Its what we decided was going to work best for us at the time, and as I've hinted at here, as our living situations, finances and sourcing have all changed, our methods have changed. But I wouldn't hesitate to go back to the way we began if that is what would suit us best for whatever is going on.

Rock the boat: Attempt 2

Isn't going so well...

Andre has stabilized well over the last week. So I decided to try the salmon oil again. Two nights ago I added it back to his meals.

Maybe I'm imagining it, but he seems to be trying to eat more crap in the yard and seems to be more ravenous in general. I was going to continue and see what happens...

Until this evening. He was just lying here in bed and started heaving like he would throw up. He didn't, but that's not a good sign. It's been on day 3 or 4 each time I try to do something new. Could also have been related to having had several biscuits, but I doubt it. 

I'm wondering how he'd handle the addition of whole fish to his meals once or twice a week. Since he does ok for a few days with the salmon oil and then he has trouble, as though it has built up in his system-- or like his stomach can only work that hard for so many days in a row, perhaps giving him fish once or twice a week, as we do with the other dogs, would be a better option...

He might get to sleep out of the crate tonight in case he's sick.

Think he's scamming me?

The Nitty Gritty: Research Part 2, The Reading List

What have we got for dinner, mom?

For those of us who grew up feeding the dogs whatever was on sale, and just pouring kibble into the bowl, going to a totally homemade diet is daunting.

For one thing, we've been told over and over by pet food manufacturers (and many vets) that we're somehow not capable of providing everything a dog needs in homemade food. That, to me, is like saying that I'm not capable of providing myself with a complete breakfast unless I only eat Total Cereal. Does that sound right? The cereal and kibble industries both grew out of manufacturers finding new ways to conveniently market and use their products. That's it. 

As I pointed out in my last post, many people don't provide a complete diet for their dogs-- or themselves or their kids, for that matter-- so the research is important. But just as it isn't an exact science for people, it's not an exact science for dogs, either. The best you can do is read a wide variety of material, find the areas of commonality, and make decisions for what feels most reasonable, logical, comfortable, etc. for your individual situation. 

Here is the list of things I read in preparation for feeding raw. I'll get to the decisions I made for myself and why I made those choices later. And one of these days, I'll dedicate a full blog post to reviewing each one. For now, you make your own decisions:

--The Yahoo raw feeders group; The majority of this group advocates a whole-prey model with minimal-to-zero supplementation. This is not the route I chose, but I learned a ton of the basics.

--Lew Olson's book, RAW AND NATURAL NUTRITION FOR DOGS

--Steve Brown's UNLOCKING THE CANINE ANCESTRAL DIET 

--Also talked to folks who use the Volhard diet, but did not read the book... 

--Kay Laurence at Learning About Dogs has a great little $8 ebook, COME DINE WITH US. HIGHLY RECOMMEND this book, particularly for the principles. I am not keen on giving large dogs chicken wings, as they can choke if they are gulpers like my Luna. But lots of good info, and Kay is very laid back and very reassuring.

--And Whole Dog Journal has a LOT of info. A year's subscription is $20 and gives you access to the entire searchable archive. ESPECIALLY GREAT if you like a more holistic approach to wellness. One of the best decisions I've made.

--Kymythy Schultz's book NATURAL NUTRITION FOR DOGS AND CATS is definitely a good one.

--And for those with puppies, I haven't read it, but if I have puppies in future, this will be on my list: GROW YOUR PUPS WITH BONES, by Ian Billinghurst.

--For cats, check out www.catinfo.org.

Carb effect

A nice article that links diet, specifically blood sugar levels, and self-control.

Self control is at the heart of all of our behavior, and it lends some information to my assertion that the high glycemic index foods in most kibble a do indeed have an effect on our dogs' behavior. 

I would have loved to have seen this study repeated with the glucose drink being administered before the initial sit-stay exercise to differentiate the different kinds of self control vs persistence. 

Still, it's a great bit of info...

http://www.psmag.com/health/dogs-offer-clues-to-self-control-10928/

Boat capsizing?

Well, I've been wondering about Andre's behavior for a few days now. He's back to eating every blade of grass that he passes and taking a loooong time to do all his business in the mornings.

These can both be chalked up to two things. One is that the grass is getting tall, and whenever the grass gets tall, they all eat more. 

Also, I've been pressed for time in the mornings, and since he can't be outside unsupervised, as soon as he's finished he comes inside with me. I may very well have trained him that pottying means going back inside. 

However, he just threw up. A full, food filled vomit. No lethargy, nothing weird behaviorally. And he (sorry for the details) ate it after he chucked it, so it wasn't rotten food. When it's been a blockage, he never eats it. 

We've recently added salmon oil back to his diet. He did have the one incidence of bile prior to the salmon oil, but I think that was a one-off. The last time he threw up for real and had liquid diarrhea, it was after we had started to give him salmon oil (and increased the chicken fat in his diet, so we need to isolate what's triggering things). 

Oh yeah. And this morning's stool was mucus covered. We are worming everyone now, so we'll see what happens. 

The plan going forward is to back off the salmon oil, finish the worming treatments, and see if he stabilizes. Another vomiting incident, though, and we go in for testing. I don't want to spend a ton of time figuring this out while he loses weight or is miserable. 

Rock the Boat

Two nights ago, Andre threw up for the first time in a long time. It was just bile, and he has been eating a lot of dead worms (ew). He didn't have the staggering or lethargy or other problems that have accompanied these flare ups in the past.

So considering all that, we decided to begin changing up his food anyway. It's a small change, but a change nonetheless.

Well, I guess that's not the first change...

I changed the kelp that he was getting from just a regular kelp, to Pet Kelp Wellness, which includes flaxseed and blueberries. So far so good.

The change we've made this time was to add salmon oil. I usually give salmon oil in capsules, but the last time we tried to add it to Andre's food, he had a flare-up after a couple of days. We were also adding in more fatty chicken, so no real clue about what the problem really was.

This time, I bought a bottle of liquid with a pump. I'll be adding it in ONCE a day, slowly increasing the frequency and quantity over time. He got half a pump the last two evenings.

This is important because he doesn't get omegas from any other substantial source. This is important and something I need to remedy soon. I'm hopeful that the salmon oil works (it's the most bio-available way, along with actual fish, of him receiving those nutrients), but if it doesn't we'll look at flax in higher quantities.

That said, if it doesn't work, that's one more data point to indicate that he either has an intolerance of salmon oil as well as chicken fat, or it may indicate a problem with higher doses of fats in general.

Regardless, it's all information.